Thursday, June 4, 2009

Report or Ignore?

Ever since Rob and I have reported on the newest ridicu-scam, I have seen a few naysayers that are telling me that the report should be removed due to copycats. Mario even posted on the fact that he has received a lot of people reaching his website due to his anti-pack searching posts, looking to find out how to do it. I will say this, there are SOME people out there looking for ideas on scams, but there are ten times as many looking for info on the hobby. That bigger portion of collectors are people who want the info we have provided to avoid a cruel fate. That is why this is important.

However, the perspective on Mario's post is a little off in my opinion. There is a huge difference between pack searching and deliberately faking an autograph so that you can make money. I have reported numerous times on pack searching as a completely unethical practice, but the people responsible are only taking advantage of retail outlets who have better things to do with their time. Really, when you think about it, its not illegal, just unethical. The people who take out the hits and RE-SEAL the packs, that is a completely different situation.

As for the fake autos, those are completely wrong in every sense of the word. You are fraudulently selling an item as real, leading to people that are getting something not at all what they were expecting. Pack searchers are a little different because the people who buy the non-resealed hot packs are getting exactly what they are expecting.

Of course, the above is just semantics, but it really needed to be addressed for perspective sake. As for the inform versus ignore, that is the real issue here. Most of the commenters on the posts seem to agree that informing people to avoid the scam is worth the few people who use it for the scam, mainly because the scammers will find a way with or without these posts. Not only do they find ways, but most of the time, they figure it out themselves. Look at the fake patch industry, its the same thing. We all know how to do it, but only a select few are douchey enough to try wrecking patch cards for fakes.

Guys, posting on this is not going to create enough fakers to make a difference. Its the people that make the decision, they will find the means regardless. Besides, we don't really reach THAT many people anyways.

18 comments:

  1. regardless of whether you post about these kind of things or not, douchebags will find a way. They always will. My hope is that a lot of douchewannabes will see these "how to" posts and try it themselves. Failing miserably of course. This will hopefully encourage ebay, and more importantly, the manufacturers to do something about it.

    But then again, maybe I'm dreaming....

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  2. I have recently posted a poll on the topic. Regardless which side you fall on, please vote and I will use the collective "voice" of the collecting community to decide to leave the video or remove it . http://www.voiceofthecollector.com/2009/06/ok-you-decide-should-video-stay-or-go.html

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  3. I am with night owl. Illegal as opposed to illegal. BIIIIIG Difference

    -wheeler281

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  4. I went to donruss's site the other day and put gave them the link to that fake brady asking them if it was fake. and here is what they said

    "Description Details:
    I am 95% sure this card being sold is a fake auto, since in this product for cards like this yall used silver stickers and made a donruss impression mark over them. Just to be sure can you tell me if it is a fake?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Donruss-Threads-Auto-Autograph-Tom-Brady-RARE_W0QQitemZ330334437731QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sports_Cards?hash=item4ce9778163&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A2103%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

    Updated By: Scott Customer Created Response No. 1 Tuesday, June 02 2009 02:08:58 PM
    Description Details:
    please email me with a responce as soon as possible

    Updated By: Scott Customer Created Response No. 2 Wednesday, June 03 2009 11:01:01 PM
    Description Details:
    i would still like to know if the card is a fake. Thanks

    Updated By: Donruss Admin Created Response No. 3 Thursday, June 04 2009 09:30:51 AM
    Description Details:
    Hi Scott,

    The card is not authentic. Thank you for your time and have a great day!

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  5. Wheeler, did you mean illegal versus legal? Not following.

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  6. here is the screen shot http://g.imagehost.org/view/0284/Picture_1_1

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  7. Isn't this the end game of the super-duper auto/relic 1 of very few type cards? With so many 1/1's, etc., how else are people supposed to stay informed as to what kinds of scams are out there and who the scammers are? This is especially true if the companies don't post official pics for verification. It's disappointing fleabay won't do anything about it. Outing these people is a public service.

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  8. I fully agree with you and Rob on this. Here is the comment that I left at Wax Heaven this morning, which is still awaiting moderation:

    "I don't have a problem with it at all - I think that both Gellman and Rob have done a great service to the hobby. Without Gellman's posts and Rob's video, I would have had no idea about these autograph sticker scammers. Now I do, and I will more closely scrutinize every autograph card that I think about buying. That's a good thing. Educated collectors are the best defense against scam artists. If someone is a big enough scumbag to start doing this scam themselves, I'm sure that they'd figure out a way to do it without Rob's video. Obviously, many people are doing it already and figured it out on their own.

    Honestly, I was surprised that Wax Heaven didn't have any posts about the autograph sticker scams before now - and now that you've written about it, your main point is to criticize others who have done a good thing by educating people about it. We should all be applauding their efforts."

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  9. this fake listing by onlytherare really made me lol when i saw it..it is listed as a 1/1 but he made a scan of it and the back has it as #/50 lmao he has 2 other cards up like it a bond and a A-rod that look fake as well. check em out and have an annoyed laugh

    http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-Bowman-Alex-Rodriguez-1-of-1-GOLD-REF-AUTO-1-1-SP_W0QQitemZ330335546825QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_Sports_Cards?hash=item4ce9886dc9&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

    even the hand numbering on the cards look like the same handwriting

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  10. Ok, not saying this is real, but the Bowman Originals set is like that, they buy back cards and have them signed. They do hand number them, but this is probably not real. Usually the highest they will go is a refractor, not a gold refractor.

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  11. my god just looked at more of his cards that are up for sale...he has a crap load up! he must be trying to get rid of them all be4 he gets shut down, since I told him I would be reporting him to ebay!! just look at them all! how sad

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  12. oh well non of the sigs look the same? but look at the manning auto he has up. hand numbered on the back in a different pen color, or the pete rose he has up and he makes it a pt to say "official sticker auto" this guy is enraging me

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  13. I think it was necessary to do what you both did. We all know many collectors have to be shown well beyond just simple evidence to buy into that they are being scammed. Even though I tend to be very careful, that AP gold auto is not something I would've noticed by just looking at it on the bay. I hope if I was collecting him or the set I'd know, but I'm not so sure. It helps collectors to have guys like you.

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  14. Thanks for the feedback and support guys. The current poll results are about 5 to 1 in favor of keeping the video up. My BIG mistake was not using a shittier auto. I had NO idea Mr Kongo was a $30-$40 auto arghh. Oh well tha't what I get for not checking the bay first LOL.

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  15. onlytherare is a complete joke. Yet no matter how many times I report all of his bogus auctions they are never taken down. look at this Elway from 2006 UD Legends, 230347233072. It should say Legendary Signatures on the front where it says 2006 UD Legends. He sold a bogus Sayers from the same set last week. This guy really pisses me off.

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  16. Larrupin, hopefully he will be shut down soon. I have been sending donruss his fake auto auctions and they responded to the last one I sent with this comment

    Updated By: Donruss Admin Created Response No. 6 Friday, June 05 2009 12:07:53 PM
    Description Details:
    Thank you for letting us aware of all this. We are also trying to shut this person down since he is falsely representing and altering our products.

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  17. I think you guys are not only educating alot of us out here, But you actually doing these scumbags a favor by calling them out. maybe they will stop? one of these days they are going to rip off the wrong person and won't be able to hide behind Ebay. Grant

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