Tuesday, November 18, 2008

MVP - More Thoughts

More thoughts on the asinine voting system and people involved in the MVP voting, and yes I now have a grudge almost as big as my grudge against Beckett.

Rob Neyer seems to agree that Pedroia was chosen more because of where he plays than what he actually proved with his 2008 season, but uses stats in a more eloquent way than I did. Check it out, for sure. Here are some idiot comments I want to go over because its fun:

From "Coneway":

Who is this "Rob Neyer" guy with all this mealy mouthed nonsense??

Don't give me this hooey about statistics. The only way a person can really tell who's most valuable is to get your head out of the computer and watch all 2,430 major league games, like REAL fans and beat writers do.

First off, I guarantee that there is not a beat writer on the planet that watches every game. There are very few "REAL fans" that do as well. What this cup of douche nozzle residue represents is a number of people within the BBWAA who feel the exact same way. What they dont understand is that you can use a computer to show you exactly WHY those players are doing what they're doing. If he is the MVP, there are tons of stats that show it, however, most of them are very tough to understand how they are derived, and most want simple layman statistics to use. What that leads to is very hole ridden stats that dont show a complete picture or even the album the picture is in. They think that stats are evil, and they are retards.

From "DamianMarc":

Mauer, r u kidding, u have a better arguement for the other twin, or the other sox, look at the numbers, pedroia's the man, and besides twins didnt make the playoffs, PLAYOFFS, so the only way mauer could have won if his numbers were gaudy aka a-rodish, and they werent, case closed!

Obviously the people on ESPN are not smart people. Rob Neyer just used numbers to show why Pedroia was not a good choice. But let me reinterate: MVPs are not supposed to be factored in by whether or not their TEAM makes the playoffs, this is because a player can be amazing on a team of losers and still have everything it takes to be the MVP. Look at ARod on the Rangers, was it his fault that the team's ERA was 5+ for the ENTIRE season? No. As for the second argument, Pedroia's numbers werent gaudy either, he just hit 8 more balls over the fence. I watched Mauer play every game this season, and guess what, he had 6 that came within five inches, and yet, that wouldnt matter to this fuckhead.

From "Bosoxx113":

Pedroia is one of those guys you have to watch day in and day out to appreciate.

This is really a moot point because obviously he was appreciated enough to be considered and win. What you are trying to say is that intangibles are the name of the game, and that is shit. Intangibles mean very little in overall production, as the reason they are called intangibles, or unmeasurables. Well, in a stat driven sport where so many measures ARE available, intangibles mean nothing. Everyone has them and I guarantee that Pedroia has the same and or equal amounts of intangibles as Ichiro, the last place vote getter. Plus, Ichiro cares for the game more than anyone, so therefore he is a better player. Uh-uh.

From "PeoplChamp":

The next time people wanna talk about how in love with Boston ESPN is, they should reference this article. Dustin Pedroia wins a Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, MVP, and was points of a batting title and this Herb can't just tip his cap? Wanna know why Joe Mauer isn't as valuable? Cause he doesn't play in as many games. And cause if your team misses the playoffs then you aren't that valuable... cause they could have missed the playoffs WITHOUT you.Don't get me wrong, I love Joe Mauer. But the guy has everything looks, ability, money... I don't think he needs an MVP award too.
Good for you D-Ped. The Nation loves and respects you if no one else can

Let me go over something. Gold gloves and silver sluggers mean about as much as All Star Game appearances. They are not given to the best defenders, just the ones that the guys think are worthy of consideration, i.e. Torii Hunter and Ivan Rodriguez. The voters dont know enough about the whole league to consider anyone else. Now, Torii is a great fielder and so is Ivan, but they got their gold gloves even when they were shitty players on defense. You know why? Because they had won the year before. That is the only reason. Otherwise, its whoever had the most webgems on BBTN. Its not actual play/range/arm, etc, all of which are shown by stats that are not factored in. Its completely subjective.

As for not playing in as many games, that is bull. Mauer plays a position that demands high impact shit and needs a day off more than a second baseman who doesnt spend 162 games in a croutch getting pounded by 90+ mph pitches 150 times a game. Plus if the above comment were true, Pedroia would be ahead in WPA and Win Shares. He is not, Mauer is on top.

As for playoffs, the Twins were 1 run away from going to the playoffs. But again, that is a TEAM acheivement. Mauer cant help that Neshek was hurt for the whole season, or that Crain gave up 18 runs in an inning twice down the stretch. He cant help that Morneau batted .232 or whatever during September. All he is responsible for is Joe and calling the games, all of which he did amazing in.

Moving on to some of the votes, I have to call out some idiots.

First off, to the cock knocker who gave Pujols a 7th place vote, you should be fired. When you put up a season where you kick everyone's ass as much as Pujols did, you shouldnt receive a 2nd place vote, let alone a 7th. Do you really think that 6 other players were better than Pujols? Either way, this guy is complete and utter fucking scum. Look at his fucking ballot, I loathe him and I hope he loses more than his job. Can someone call Shang Tsung to steal his soul? That would rock. (h/t go cards)

Secondly, to the 12 people that voted for Howard, HRs and RBIs mean very little in a players worth as I have beaten to death. What is sad is that you voted for a guy who had an OBP of .339 with a .251 avg and 199 SOs. That is pretty crazy considering what Pujols did.

Lastly, if you look at the way the votes kicked out, you have to be surprised how many stupid people there are in total. I could lay out my votes really quickly, and they would be based on provable stuff. Its sad that people think computers are the devil when they do so many things better than just "watching." Plus, to the commenter on ESPN who said "everything you know about baseball you got from a box score," I would say this, you cant learn about baseball from a box score, but you can do some pretty crazy things from combining the actual game with the box score in stat form. Check it out, you may learn something, which I know is against your religion.


  1. Dammit! I had a great long post as a response and it didn't go through and now it's all gone. I need to collect my thoughts and try again. Dammit!

  2. I laughed really hard at the guy who said that stats don't mean anything in baseball. Stats in baseball are what makes baseball baseball.

    As a hardcore A's fan, I know for a fact that stats can make or break your team. Billy Beane's created a franchise out of it, we have our in and out years, but we've had that long streak of great teams in the early 2000's.

    Pedroia is overrated, and Boston fans, for the bulk of them, are morons--it's disgusting how biased and condescending when it comes to sports. It's just awful.

    Gellman, the Twins will be good, just in due time--trust me on that one. At least you're not like delusional Dodgers fans who think they're team is great; getting one player who changes the course of their season just proves how bad the NL West is--but I digress, great post.

  3. Idiot who voted Pujols 7th is a columnist with the Milwaukee Journel Sentinel. Total homer who had three Brewers in the top 10... with Captain Cheeseburger and the world's largest vegetarian ahead of Albert. Go figure...


  4. Ok, let's try this again. I'm sure most of my great original thoughts are lost from my brain forever.

    I agree with you on Pedroia being a bad choice. Honestly, there weren't any great choices out there, even though my guy (Morneau) was in the running. If I had a choice, I would have voted for Mauer. In my eyes, Pedroia was just a cog on a team that was SUPPOSED to win. Mauer and Morneau did their work on a team that wasn't supposed to do didly squat this year. Yet, they almost made the playoffs. I give the edge to Mauer because he plays a more demanding position and has more of a hand in whether the team wins or loses each day.

    I also don't buy this crap about Pedroia being more deserving because his team made the playoffs. They are the fricking Red Sox! They are supposed to make the playoffs! If they hadn't made the playoffs you'd have people barking that the playoffs shouldn't matter.

    My original post was better. Stupid Blogger!!