Product Review: 2008 Threads Baseball

Threads Baseball is here and in full force, and I think its time for me to do a thing I havent done in a while, a baseball product review! I think a lot of people were waiting for a DLP baseball product, and they seemingly delivered with a bang, according to the sell sheets. I went over some of the stuff, and ill see if they actually came through.

The Good

Shoeless Joe, Pete Rose, Willie Mays, and Hammerin Hank, four names we havent heard mentioned when referring to baseball cards in a long while. When it comes to these four, two of which who are getting on in age, I have to say "BRAVO DLP!" to finally getting a few more products out for these treasures of the game. Aaron has been the focus in baseball for a while now, thanks to the Steroid Superman, Barrius Bonds, and I think its time we got some sugar for the people who love the original. Aaron and Mathews were my favorite old time players growing up, and I still follow their collectibles today. I was beyond psyched when I saw that Aaron was all over the Threads preview.

As for the results of the hype, the base cards are nice, and I think the relics they threw in the base cards fit nicely. Hank, Willie and Pete are all over this beast of a product, and they even get the royal treatment in Diamond Kings with base, relics, and relic autos. The cards look as good as they did in football, and I think I may have to pick up some singles after our group break.

Moving on, I think its really a good idea to have the Baseball Americana stuff in this set, as it means we get a lot of extra fun cards from people who love and are a part of baseball's history. The funnest card I saw was the autographs they have of former President, George Bush. How great is that? I would love to pull one of those awesome cards. Plus, you get more of Willie and Hank too, which doesn’t hurt. The best part of these cards is that the entertainers collected in this set are actually connected to the history of the game, unlike "Spectrum of the Backup Hair Metal Guitarist Stars." Good call there.

Lastly, the Rookie Class letters can be really cool in football, and I know a lot of people have been waiting for them in a DLP baseball product. Even though the prospects have to be shown in their college jerseys, I think it was a nice addition to the set. Here's to DLP getting the baseball license back!

The Bad

Even though the product is a wagon full of great players, they only got bat relics for most of the people who we were looking forward to. Rose is an exception, though im not sure many are surprised by that. Absolute 2005 was awesome because of all the amazing jersey relics they got of Jim Thorpe, Hank Aaron, and Willie Mays, not all the crappy "bat" relics. I wish that jerseys were included. *Sad Face*

Secondly, its obvious to me WHY they had to use stickers for a lot of these cards, but that doesn’t excuse them from the ones that could have been ON CARD. Prospect autos should never be on stickers, bottom line.

The Ugly

No unproven college prospect should ever be put on a "Kings" card. College Kings, Diamond Kings (especially), etc, are not places for these kids to be. I say that for football, for anything, really. Save it for Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken, and others who should be there. God I would hate to pull one of those.

Also, the Aaron autos are redemptions from what I can tell. That is the second time in recent memory that I know the autos of the person on the front of the box are actually redemptions. Im sorry DLP, but that is FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Parallels in this product are so plentiful that they become ultimately confusing as fuck. If I cant understand your goofy ass parallels, you need to rethink your strategy. Base, Gold, and 1/1, that’s all it should be.

Overall, this product lives up to the hype due to its forgotten titans of the game. Satchel Paige, who hasn’t had many cards, is in this product - WITH RELICS - and I think that is awesome. Plus, I think this product gives collectors that, "Im doing something good for the hobby" feeling by buying this. If you buy this product, DLP will continue to put out baseball products. Although that is as far from the truth as you can get, I think it’s a feeling many have. I like this product a lot, I have resigned myself to a fate that Absolute 2008 is never coming, and I think I could live with this.

Another Stupid Trend I Could Do Without

With Goudey baseball, we now have ANOTHER set with a subset containing presidents and other political personalities from US history. Why? Why God Why? Please, explain to me why every set has to have some sort of presidential connection? Its almost as bad as the celebrity trends that have polluted the sports focused sets.

First we have Allen and Ginter, although historically, this set was focused as much on important people as it was sports players. Based on that success, we then have a plethora of other sets that have presidential chases and subsets like Premier, Triple Threads, Signs of History, Razor Cut signatures, among others. Its getting fucking "Redekcolus" that we cant have a baseball set without some sort of non-sport connection anymore. Its really confusing to me as to why manufacturers continue to fill out their sets with these cards instead of just producing a better sports themed set. Looking back, we never had to have bullshit like this. The chases were sports themed, and the SPs did not play guitar. It was better that way.

Here is a suggestion, a simple one: fill out the fucking sets with better sports stuff. That way you wont have to worry about the competitors. No one can compete with a well put together sports set, its the one thing that any collector would happily buy. From now on, I will automatically assume your set came up short if you resort to non-sport subsets.

Sounding Off On Jersey Cards

So far this year, Topps has not used the term "event used" on their cards, but instead changed it to "Player Worn" to fill the gap (see below). This is plain deception in my mind, as new collectors have no idea that the rookie premiere is a sham when it comes to "relics." In fact, when it comes to the big three companies in the big three sports, I trust topps the least with their jersey cards. They never refer to them as jerseys, but rather as "relics" because they don’t know if the swatches are actually jersey stuff in some sports. It could be pants, it could be warm ups, it could be a fucking coat they wore on the bench.



Personally, I think event used jerseys suck. The players wear them for literally two seconds, if that, and then throw them into a basket. All of this is done in a tent, where the public cant see, and then they are labeled as "event worn." Some of the time, they aren't even their own jerseys. Sidney Rice threw on at least two different Tarvaris Jackson jerseys at the 07 premiere. You can guarantee it happened again this year. Also, you know that picture on the card? Those jerseys from that picture are never cut up, according to my source at the rookie premiere. They are given to the players to do as they please, many of whom have never worn or seen the official team issues yet.

Topps has been known to use jerseys from non-official games, that’s why they are called "relics." You know those stark white jersey pieces from a guy who played in the 50's? Yeah, those aren't game used. Topps buys numerous jerseys from old timer games and public appearances to insert into their cards. As said before, older jerseys are becoming more expensive and more scarce, so rather than conserving what they have, they find other ways to do it. They have cut up Mickey Mantle's suits, ties and pants, among other stupid excuses for swatches, and for this reason I don’t buy Topps jersey cards. Right now, every single Topps Triple Threads card is labeled, "This relic was not used in any specific event, game or season." What the fuck is that? Seriously! I just paid 170 bucks for this box, and you cant even guarantee that this shit is game used? Give me a fucking break.

I have stated before that there is a possibility that the jerseys on the cards are not real. There is no promise other than the word of the manufacturers that the jersey came from the player on the card, and there is no reason to believe that they are being 100% honest with us. As recent as a few months ago, a Michael Jordan UNC warm up jersey was sold by Mastro Auctions for 11,000 dollars. The problem was that authenticators believe that the real nameplate was ripped off and Jordan's was put on. What does that say about the companies that buy from these places?

Lets face it people, this industry is more scam ridden than most of the idiots believe. The reason I first mentioned the (now retired) Joe Collector was because he was the person who refused to believe that nothing was going on behind the curtain with Beckett, UD, Topps or anybody. I can guarantee that is not the case, as any time there is money involved, douchebags migrate to that place like its a fucking pilgrimage.

The funny thing is that no one seems to care that they are being scammed. Instead, they live their existence believing that the Event Worn card they have in their hand is from an actual game, or that the auto they have hanging on the wall is actually real, or that the graded BGS card they own is actually the low 8.5 it says on the tag. Bullshit, that’s what it is. Those people make the hobby a shitty place because they help to blur the line when it comes the things you don’t do to people. Because they keep buying, the companies will keep finding ways to screw people, spend less money doing it, and will eventually ruin the things we love for good.

A Comment On DNA Relics

Dear UD and Topps,

I am really, REALLY, confused as to why hair relics are being included in sports cards. Yes, I know they are actual pieces of those people that they are advertised as, but unless I am making a clone, I dont see a purpose in this stuff. Cut autos, despite destroying historical documents, are cool, and SHOULD bring a lot of money. However, when it comes to cut hair, lets get serious - this is borderline gross. I have long said that "body used" blood samples are the next thing to include in player relics, but this is getting a little too close for comfort. Lets stick with cut sigs and suit relics from presidents, and cut sigs and jersey pieces from old timey players. That would be MORE than enough for me.

Now, I do understand that there is quite a market for hair collectors, but I think that combining that hobby with sports card collecting is going a little far. I mean, what did you guys have to go through to get this stuff? Either way, lets get some fresh blood in the card market, no pun intended, but stay away from bodily functions, excrement, and all naturally related pieces of a figure from the past.

Sincerely,
Gellman

First Look: 2008 Topps Sterling

Well, here we go ladies and gents, the best baseball product of the year is up.

350 dollars a box this year for the same stuff as last year. The checklist is huge, and features most of the guys from the new legends deal that Topps has. Kinda sucks that the price has gone up to compensate, but it looks like the current guys have been removed and replaced with the likes of Lou Gherig and an ominous TBD where Babe Ruth will go.

I love this product, only because it is really the only true high end baseball product out there that seems cool to open. Without the current players it seems like it will be EVEN MORE fun as now you can pull some huge fucking hits, including the 1/1 jumbo letters, swatches, etc from last year. This is going to rock.

Here is the checklist (pictures when I have the sell sheet in hand):

Ernie Banks
Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra
George Brett
Roy Campanella
Roberto Clemente
Ty Cobb
Joe DiMaggio
Whitey Ford
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Bob Gibson
Tony Gwynn
Rogers Hornsby
Reggie Jackson
Harmon Killebrew
Mickey Mantle
Roger Maris
Don Mattingly
Paul Molitor
Thurman Munson
Eddie Murray
Stan Musial
Mel Ott
Jim Palmer
Cal Ripken
Frank Robinson
Jackie Robinson
Nolan Ryan
Ryne Sandberg
Mike Schmidt
Tom Seaver
Duke Snider
Honus Wagner
Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski
Robin Yount
TBD

The Wishing Well Of HOFers and Legends

Now that Topps has seemingly taken over the baseball market for legendary players through hobby crushing exclusive contracts, Im beginning to wonder if Upper Deck will shift their focus elsewhere. First, before I move any further, let me again express the disgust I have over exclusive contracts in general. I think it would be much better if the companies had exclusive advertising contracts, meaning that you couldn’t feature their exclusives on your packaging, but you could still produce relics and autos. It would save us collectors a lot of time and money, and would still allow us to choose based on preference rather than the auto checklist. That being said, I would really hope that with the lot of players that Topps has secured, maybe we will see some new products pop up that we have been waiting for from Upper Deck. I say this because their legends and HOFer based baseball products were such a focus for them, made them so much money, and floated so many of their thin products, that maybe they will need to find a new boat to carry them to profit. For once, I will help UD out with some ideas. Not because I want to make nice, but because I think the collectors need a little pick-me-up. Here is what I suggest:

1. Legendary Cuts Football and Basketball

As it stands right now, pretty much every single football and basketball product that is released centers around the rookie class for the year. One of the reasons LC is so popular for baseball is because there was never a focus on current stars in the set. Until 2008, it was all retired stars and HOFers. With Legendary Cuts Football, I could see it being the same thing, sadly because so many football players die so young. Johnny Unitas, Walter Payton, Jim Thorpe, and Sammy Baugh are all players that could headline this set, with auto subsets for players like Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. I cant tell you how awesome this could be. Of course UD would find some way to fuck it up, but its worth a shot.

Now, for Basketball, this would be a little bit harder to pull off because the modern age of Basketball is so strong when it comes to the stars in the league right now and the living HOFers and Legends. I could still see Cuts from Mikan, Maravich, and Chamberlain being pretty big, and I think the set could do well. I would still do stuff with Jordan, as he draws no matter what. Its an idea, but I think the football one is stronger.

2. More Work on Football and Basketball Legends Than Before

Look at UD Premier Baseball vs UD Premier Football - they are completely different structures! Baseball focuses on a balance between the Vets, RCs, and HOFers to make the set buyable, where as Football focuses primarily on the RC stuff. There was so few items on the checklist that focused on the players of yesteryear that it was kind of stupid. Not to mention that the set dropped like a fucking rock after release in terms of price per box. Hopefully now, we can get some cards and products focusing on the living legend players and more cuts from the non-living ones. Old jerseys from FB are tougher to get than the baseball ones, solely because of the nature of how people viewed primitve baseball vs primitive football back then. That is still no excuse to not focus on the players.

3. Make Exquisite Better Than It Has Ever Been

First, there is one thing that FB and BKB have that BB never will have - super high end products. Most baseball collectors are like the ones you read about on most of the existing blogs out there, and they don’t like spending a lot on their products. There is nothing wrong with that, but it opens up a big hole for UD to exploit Topps' new focus on their baseball legends. Because Exquisite exists for the other sports, take the opportunity to redesign and refocus. No more crappy dual autos that make no sense, no more cards that look exactly the same as the year before. STEP IT UP. Make your best products into ones that will take the focus off your baseball loss. If Exquisite rocks, who cares that Legendary Cuts and Premier baseball have become crap, I know I wont!

4. Work On Improving Areas Of Your Baseball Division That Need Work

UD is quickly becoming as irrelevant in baseball as Topps is in Basketball. Although Jeter and Grif are still exclusives, they should work on building up the rookie based products. Topps is wiping the floor constantly thanks to Bowman, but you could easily cash in on guys like Jay Bruce, Josh Hamilton, and the latest Japanese sensation like Fuck-you-doo-mee. These guys all come in late season, so wait until things get going before starting work on these guys. I guarantee none of them have relics yet, so I would tout that as the focus of the set. As a collector, I would want that type of thing for my favorite guys.

5. Let It Go, For Fuck's Sake, LET IT GO.

I know that UD basically got caught with their pants down over the loss of ALL these guys, but they need to let it go. DO NOT TRY TO RELAUNCH THE PRODUCTS WITHOUT THE LOST HOFERS. No more Sweet Spot Classic, no more Legendary Cuts, and no more trying to fix your loss. Let it go. I cant tell you how much I would laugh if I saw UD try to put out more sets now that they cant produce stuff from the top legends in the history of baseball. Instead of Sweet Spot Classic Baseball, do football and basketball. That would be much more inviting to me.

The Brand That Ruth Built

In some huge news, Topps has announced that Babe Ruth cards and relics will now only be available in topps products. Just so you understand the gravity of this situation, lets take a look at the list of HOFers who are Topps exclusives.

RUTH
GHERIG
WILLIAMS
MANTLE
ROBINSON
CY YOUNG
DIMAGGIO
AMONG OTHERS.....

With Hank Aaron still with DLP for the immediate future, I dont think there are any old timey guys left for UD. Now, I have written a post about how horrible exclusive contracts are, but I have also said how there couldnt possibly be more relics of these guys. Either way, Topps has made a huge signing, and basically given a big "FUCK YOU" to Upper Deck. I guess its payback for decimating the Basketball checklist and making Topps BKB basically irrelevant.

Personally I dont care too much, as Babe Ruth and Lou Gherig relics should not be cut up for baseball cards, yet I feel that UD Premier and Legendary Cuts just became a Derek Jeter and Ken Griffey Jr highlight reel.

Heading in The Right Direction

So today I was tooling around UD's website and I saw that starting as early as July, people will be able to choose their redemption replacements electronically on the site. I didnt believe my eyes at first, but I think this is a step in the right direction. Of course the right thing would be to have no redemptions at all, but hey, better than nothing, right?

At least now you wont get one of the 5000 Dallas McPhereson 2005 Reflections autos when you redeem your favorite player. Thats good. What's bad is that UD will be assigning values to each card so that you cant get a Jordan for your Kurt Rambis redemption that was never made, and I know which of our favorite magazines they will use. Either way, hopefully this turns out well.

I also saw something that was equally as shocking on the sell sheet for Superlative Hockey from In The Game. On the sheet it mentions that all cards from the set are signed on card, no redemptions, and all jerseys are game used (not from photo shoots, events, or old timer games). I couldnt help but doing a classic Mr. Burns, "Excellent." They even came up with the lame, "Off the back, not off the rack" tag line. I like it, but it is a very, very pricey set.

It just goes to show that it IS possible to put out a collector dream set. If only we could get it for Baseball and Football now!

Base of Operations

I want to ask a question that has been on my mind for a while, and I think it may be a source of some controversy for some old timey collectors. Over the last year or so, companies have been moving more and more towards the "tin-style" box rather than the actual size box with 18-24 packs. Usually in these tins, you get the box hits and one or two base cards to satisfy your hunger. If you are opening a box of UD Black, you get 2 cards for 250 bucks. This begs the question of whether or not base cards are becoming obsolete in the industry, due to the overjersification and overautofication of sets in the market (I know those words are made up, but they are AWESOME). For most of you, the basic concept of this makes the kid in you die a little, but let me go over some pros and cons.

First off, this obviously wouldn’t be for EVERY SINGLE set. It would only be the ones that are based on the auto/jersey subsets and not the base set. I mean, what would Topps be without a base set? Nothing, that’s what. This would be for products like SP Authentic, CoSigners, Triple Threads, Gridiron Gear, Leaf Certified Materials, Threads, etc. Instead of having to rip through pack after pack of base for SPA, all you would have to do is pop open the collectible tin. Products like Bowman Chrome and Topps Chrome would still be base ridden products, but sets like Triple Threads would no longer be two packs of base with 2 hits. Instead, it would just be the two hits, or at the most, one base card with the box hits. I support this concept because I think it will force companies to live up to the price point a little bit more efficiently. Look at UD Black Basketball, which is the product of the year for Basketball collectors. They can get away with two cards per box because they make the boxes/cases worth buying.

Secondly, when it comes to Natty Treasures and Exquisite, no more base. Forget that shit, they would either have to shrink the box size or add another card that isnt a base card. No one buys those sets for the base, so im not thinking there will be a mutiny over this. In fact, this brings up a general microcosm of the hobby, mainly that the sheep don’t care about base cards in their mid-end products because you cant make any money off base. Making money aint my thang, but personally, I couldn’t care less about the base. I just throw them in a box in the closet, yes, literally throw. Hell, if I could get SPA in tin form with my three hits, I would be happy as a fucking pig in shit.

On the other hand, I didn’t get into the hobby as a kid to get Jersey and Auto cards. In fact, they werent even around much other than a few scarce cards. I loved ripping through packs and pulling out my favorite guys for the albums I had. I would trade with my friends and we were pleased with nothing but base. Our guilty pleasure was the insert cards and we loved those bastards like they were our children. You couldn’t even touch my Shawn Kemp Jam City card without my permission, if not only because I had pulled that sucker myself. Now, if the base cards are gone, collectors like this probably would dwindle to the point of extinction with lack of product. Actually, I think this is already the case, mainly because companies know where their bread and butter is coming from already. Set collectors are dying off as high end products become more attractive and low end sets continue to get the short end of the stick. I think Topps has finally realized that its pointless to spend much time putting together a good set, so they try to include "error" cards like the Jeter to make it more buy-worthy for the big whales.

Another disturbing trend that I could see happening is a complete base set with Jersey pieces in every card. No card is not a relic, and people would fucking flip a shit over it. Once this happens, its over for the normal sets. Because there isnt a set today without autos or jerseys, it says that the direction of the industry is heading for more cards like this rather than less. For people like me, I don’t really care. For people like some of the bloggers out there who thrive on busting cheap packs and writing good articles on them, it could be pretty bad. Awesomely Bad Wax, A Pack a Day, and all the others out there are great blogs from collectors that still get joy out of base. It kind of makes me sad that the kid in me has died that loved that era of card collecting.

A Cut Above III: Craziest Thing Ever Created

This auction is probably the craziest thing I have ever laid eyes on.

eBay Auction Ridiculosity

When this gets taken down, here is a picture just so you know how fucking unbelievable this thing is:



Here is a list of the cuts that are included:
Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Cy Young
Lou Gherig
Rogers Hornsby
Ted Williams
Pie Traynor
Honus Wagner
Roy Campanella

Yeah, try and digest that. Holy fuck. But 57k is a little much, Id rather have a Mercedes.

The Shirt Off My Back - Or Is It?

It all started in 1996 when Upper Deck put the first jersey card in their baseball set. You had your pick of HOF bound Rey Ordonez, some guy named Ken Griffey Jr, and 1 or two others. It was quite the easy pull at one per eleventy billion boxes, so naturally, they were a huge freaking deal.


The baseball ones were so tough to find, I have to use a hockey one!

These days we have everything to clothing relics to old nappy hair relics - and yet people still say we have "come a long way." Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit! These days its not better, its fucking out of control. They have even gone so far as to create a whole event where all the future nobodies of the NFL and NBA can run, jump, and play in full uniform, JUST so the card companies can get relics for their rookie jersey and auto cards. That, my friends, is fucking ridiculosity in full bloom. What's even funnier is that people drop a deuce (both literally and figuratively) for a Peterson exquisite, and its not even game fucking used! I want my jersey cards to come from real shit. Bled on, spit on, played in, sweat on - REAL game used crap. Not some jersey that All Day threw on for two measley seconds in San Diego on a bright and sunny day. Fuck that!


WARNING: Object in picture is not as real as it appears...

I havent spent a penny on rookie jersey cards that dont have an auto on them. What's the god damned point? Its not like the jersey in the cards means anything - if it is even player touched at all!

Great article on this exact point - THANK YOU WHEELER!

Which brings me to another point, can someone elighten my ignorant ass as to where these card companies get bat after bat and jersey after jersey for all the old timey guys? Its not like the Babe and Gherig set aside jerseys frequently for the companies to have! I know UD has a lot of freaking money from all their scams, but seriously its not like there is an unlimited supply! I know Topps has already been forced to use jerseys from an old timer's game and some clothing relics for Mantle, but each year we get more and more Ruth, Dimaggio, and Gherig cards with no hint of slowing down. Anyone else getting a faint whiff of bullshit here?


Wow, what a beaut. Hopefully the Babe has some more great ones lying around his house.

I know that I wouldnt put it past those douchebags to pull this over on us, but seriously, that would be huge shit. I think the collectors would shit a collective brick if they found out what was really going on. I already question UD because they took the guarantee off the back of their newer jersey cards. Who knows if my sick Kurt Rambis patch card was actually worn by my favorite schmuckface Dan Majerle? Who knows if it was worn in a game or to an autograph signing? There are no more sure things any more, and that grinds my gears to nubs.